CYNTHIA ERIVO, CATHY
There was a lot of talk about this past Broadway season as such a banner year in terms of the diversity of stories being told onstage and actor representation. This is the first, at least, very public performance with two black actors playing these roles. What are your thoughts on that?
CE: When we decided to do it, I don鈥檛 know that it was the first thing that came to mind. I think Jason鈥檚 very particular about the singers he likes to use, and he loves the both of us and we love him. And so for him, it was just a case of I want these two singers to do this show and we鈥檙e not changing any words, we鈥檙e not changing any subtext at all. So as far as you鈥檙e concerned, Jamie is still Jewish, and Cathy is still a blond-haired girl, which I am, so that鈥檚 fine. But, inadvertently, we have realized that it is a huge statement to have two black actors playing these characters, which isn鈥檛 normally the way it has been done previously. We鈥檝e had a wonderful season so far, and what I wish for the next couple of years is for that to continue to be the norm. Because I don鈥檛 know that that鈥檚 what鈥檚 going to happen in the next couple of years. Leslie [Odom, Jr.] said it so eloquently in an interview that what we have right now is wonderful, but what we want to see is whether that can uphold the next couple of years and onward; so that it isn鈥檛, 鈥淥h my gosh it鈥檚 a diverse year, it鈥檚 fantastic,鈥� so that it becomes the norm. So that it鈥檚 not strange to walk into a theatre next door and have loads of Latin people, loads of Spanish people, loads of African Americans鈥攖hat doesn鈥檛 become the new thing, it just is. I hope I can play a part in trying to help to allow people, writers, producers to be unafraid to embrace that and to keep that going, because it鈥檚 a wonderful thing when it鈥檚 done well, and I think everyone needs to see themselves represented when it comes to theatre and stage and Broadway and Off-Broadway and all those things.
听 What is your favorite song in the show?
CE: Oh dear. It鈥檚 hard. I really love 鈥淭he Next Ten Minutes.鈥� I think it鈥檚 just a really beautiful moment for the both of them. It鈥檚 a real true 鈥淚 want to spend my life with you, will you spend your life with me, please, and we鈥檒l keep going until we can鈥檛 keep going anymore,鈥� which is wonderful and sad with respect to the story because that鈥檚 kind of what happens, they keep going until they just can鈥檛 anymore. There鈥檚 another one I do at the top of the show. It鈥檚 not 鈥淚 Can Do Better Than That,鈥� which was my favorite but now I keep going over [all] the music. I can鈥檛 help it, it changes every day where I鈥檓 like, 鈥淥oh I love that one, but oh that song鈥檚 amazing.鈥� And I never knew I鈥檇 love 鈥淭he Shmuel Song鈥� that much, but I really do. When Josh does it, he鈥檚 so lovely, it鈥檚 so wonderfully told like a proper story told in full throttle. He鈥檚 just brilliant. It changes. I can鈥檛 help it. I try to stick to one but it can never stay that way. 听 How much chemistry does there need to be because you鈥檙e not onstage together? More so that it鈥檚 tangible for the audience? Less?
CE: I think there needs to be more. I think it still needs to feel like they could be in the room together. It鈥檚 strange because they鈥檙e going in opposite directions. So Cathy is going backwards in time, so she already knows all the things that you鈥檙e seeing her partner go through. It鈥檚 just that she has some onlook at everything that鈥檚 happening. I feel like she鈥檚 in the room with him, she can hear everything that he鈥檚 saying. Whether or not he can hear what she鈥檚 saying is a different story. But there is a moment where they meet in the middle, and they really are together, but it has to feel like they didn鈥檛 meet there just for the first time. It has to feel like they鈥檝e been together for a long time before that moment. So I feel like there needs to be more chemistry in the room even when they鈥檙e not speaking to each other. 听 You mentioned the possibility of you doing this with different people and Joshua is who it is. I have to say鈥�
CE: It鈥檚 pretty awesome.
It鈥檚 the dream we didn鈥檛 know we had. How much rehearsing will you do together?
CE: We鈥檝e had one session together, and I think we鈥檒l have another one and then I think we have the day [of]. We鈥檝e been doing our rehearsals separately, which hasn鈥檛 been terrible because a lot of it is in isolated incidents on their own before they come together. So it鈥檚 nice to sometimes come together to hear each other鈥檚 voices and to feel each other鈥檚 energy in the room at the same time. 听 What do you like to infuse into your Cathy that you think is a bit unique?
CE: What鈥檚 strange is there鈥檚 a line in 鈥淪hiksa Goddess鈥�: if you had a tattoo, or if you had any piercings or if you had a shaved head, which is basically me. Completely. My kind of normal is very different than most people鈥檚 normal. That to me is my norm. I know that my psyche, my self, has a strong essence. I鈥檓 feisty by nature. I feel that [my performance] is just naturally going to fall into that. I like to connect quite deeply with things, so when there is a sadness and when there is a frustration, it鈥檚 probably going to be super obvious. I can鈥檛 hide my feelings. I won鈥檛 have to do very much for it to come to the surface, it will be there for everyone to see. That鈥檚 not to say that no one else has been able to do that, but that鈥檚 something I know that is particular to me and that I enjoy doing. There鈥檚 nothing sort of hidden for anyone. 听 Like you said, if you didn鈥檛 do it people were just going to keep asking you and asking you and audiences have such a strong response to this show. No one ever thinks, 鈥淲hy are we doing this again?鈥�
CE: We鈥檙e all suckers for love stories, and I think we鈥檙e all suckers for the exploration of something even if it鈥檚 a love story that鈥檚 gone wrong. The idea of looking into someone鈥檚 heart and looking into someone鈥檚 memory is still quite magical, I think. 听 What is it about The Last Five Years specifically that pulls you into the music and the show and the character?
CE: I think it鈥檚 just the wonderful telling of the story of two people who really were in love and kind of lost their way a bit. She鈥檚 searching for what happened and how they loved each other, and he doesn鈥檛 know until he gets to that point that it has happened. I just love this love-lost, love-is-gained story about these two very normal people who are both extraordinary in their own ways, one of whom doesn鈥檛 quite know that she is鈥攂ut knows that she wants something but can鈥檛 put her hands on what it is that she wants鈥攁nd one that knows exactly what it is and lets that stuff get between himself and his partner. It鈥檚 a story of many love stories and couples that have been through it and come back again. I think it鈥檚 a great universal story to see and hear, and the music is amazing. 听 You first performed with Jason Robert Brown during his residency at subculture and then that video of you singing 鈥淚 Can Do Better Than That鈥� at Marie鈥檚 Crisis went all over the Broadway sphere. Was that the beginning of all of this?
CE: Well, actually, the first time I performed with him was in London. He came over to do a concert at Royal Festival Hall and that鈥檚 the song I did there. When I got to New York, we decided that I would do the residency with him at SubCulture, and so that happened, and then I went to Marie鈥檚 Crisis and they asked me to sing a song, so I did that one because it felt like it was part of the arsenal, and then I guess our brains started thinking about what could happen and what we could do and whether or not this might be a possibility. Then we kept hearing from other people that we should do it and that they wanted to see me do it with someone, and there were loads of suggestions of who to do it with. At first it was Leslie and then it was Ben Platt, all sorts. Then I guess one day Jason just was like, 鈥淚 think we should just do this because we鈥檙e going to keep being asked about it,鈥� so that鈥檚 how it sort of spun out of control in the best possible way, so now here we are. Myself and Josh in the next couple of days. | JOSHUA HENRY, JAMIE
How did you get pulled in to this project? Since it is part of Jason鈥檚 residence at SubCulture.
JH: We did a concert at SubCulture, and I sang some of his stuff from Parade, which we did at Avery Fisher Hall a little while ago. At that point we hadn鈥檛 spoken of it, but shortly after that there was some Twitter talk of Cynthia and I doing The Last Five Years. It wasn鈥檛 Jason, it was literally people had just tweeted that. Then Cynthia and I were sort of private messaging each other and saying, 鈥淲ouldn鈥檛 that be really really cool?鈥� I didn鈥檛 know that Cynthia had done another concert or two with Jason at other times and that they had spoken about it, as well, and she did one of the songs from The Last Five Years. Fast forward to a few months ago, now, Jason just reached out and was like 鈥淟et鈥檚 just do this.鈥� He just emailed Cynthia and I and said, 鈥淒o these days work? Yes. Let鈥檚 do it.鈥� So it was as simple as that on my end. It was very exciting.
You sold out in half an hour on the pre-sale day. There鈥檚 something about The Last Five Years. Why do you think audiences have such a strong response to this show?
JH: I think the music is brilliant, technically and emotionally. I still remember the first time I heard Jason Robert Brown sing that song when I was a freshman at the University of Miami, he sang 鈥淢ovin鈥� Too Fast,鈥� and it was the first time I cried鈥攏asty cry. It鈥檚 a celebratory song but I remember almost snotting because it was so brilliant鈥攖he music just got me. I think the music is incredible; I think it鈥檚 about relationships building up and tearing apart. Whether you鈥檙e a kid or an older person, everyone can relate to seeing that, being a part of that, witnessing it, so that鈥檚 a timeless thing. I think what we鈥檙e seeing now is it鈥檚 written in such a brilliant way that it doesn鈥檛 matter the performers that are involved with it, it can live through different age groups, different races, different cultures I think. I think that鈥檚 what鈥檚 interesting about Cynthia and I doing it, and that鈥檚 what I鈥檓 really excited about. We鈥檝e had a few rehearsals now, which is so exciting.
How much are the two of you rehearsing together?
JH: It鈥檚 only going to be a couple of times because it鈥檚 so individual, but we do have some duets together, and we have to be there to support each other being in the scenes and things, so I think altogether it鈥檒l just be a handful of times. It鈥檚 thrilling! It鈥檚 different than anything you鈥檝e heard on the recording. I didn鈥檛 see the Off-Broadway show, but it鈥檚 different than hearing anything I would imagine. Hearing Cynthia sing some of these songs鈥攊t鈥檚 totally re-imagined, yet still has the same intent. I think that audience鈥� That is the golden ticket and they鈥檒l be in for a real treat. Hopefully there鈥檒l be another time, we鈥檒l see.
You spend so much time not on the same stage. How much of a chemistry does there need to be between the two of you?
JH: I think that鈥檚 something that we鈥檙e finding out right now, and in this last week we鈥檙e going to put it all together even more, but it was very important for us to even be next to each other in rehearsal singing these songs. To feel each other and how when you have the other person, you鈥檙e singing a song it鈥檚 a solo, but to feel how this person may react, and also to hear each other sing. I think that informs a lot of [choices]. For instance, hearing Cynthia, hearing her strength and her vulnerability and where she slides on that spectrum with Cathy. So that informs how I talk to her and how I get upset with her and when I get annoyed. It was all about hearing Cynthia go to those places. There鈥檚 just a sensitivity that I think in a very short time we鈥檝e had to develop, and it鈥檚 exciting to do that with her.
How would you describe your take on Jaime?
JH: Well, what I鈥檓 fascinated by him is: he鈥檚 a genius, and he got success very early in his life, and that does something to a person. That鈥檚 something that I can sort of relate to. In coming to New York I got my first Broadway show six months after I got here. So that song, 鈥淢ovin鈥� Too Fast,鈥� means so much to me, knowing that feeling where it鈥檚 just where you imagined yourself but it鈥檚 flying by you at a million miles an hour. So I have a lot of connection with him鈥擨鈥檓 not calling myself a genius, P.S., but that idea of success coming to you quickly and what that does to your relationship. I was in a relationship (thankfully I鈥檓 married to the woman I was in a relationship with at the time), but that affects things because there鈥檚 no template. It鈥檚 a hard thing. When success comes, it changes everything, so I鈥檓 interested in portraying what that鈥檚 like and I think I have a lot of connection with that.
Is 鈥淢ovin鈥� Too Fast鈥� your favorite song from the show, or is there another one you love?
JH: I think... Oh gosh, that鈥檚 so hard!!! I think 鈥滻f I Didn鈥檛 Believe In You鈥�? Maybe? I seriously can鈥檛 answer that question. I can鈥檛.
You mentioned earlier that what鈥檚 so beautiful about this is that so many people can step into the shoes of Jaime and Cathy and that it鈥檚 not just one type of story. This is the first time that we鈥檙e having two black actors play these roles and diversity was a big topic this past Broadway season. How are you feeling in terms of moving that forward?
JH: I hope that it just continues to give black actors and other actors of color opportunities in ways that they haven鈥檛 had before especially because if the show works and artistically it works for that to happen, then why not? Why not? It鈥檚 so important for us to see ourselves up onstage, represented, and art is the best place for that to happen. And I think once it happens in art, it will happen even more in pop culture and more film and more TV. I think Broadway really cracked something open last year, and hopefully it wasn鈥檛 a fluke. And I think what Jason sort of caught onto was: why not? There are so many great reasons for it to happen. I鈥檒l never forget after Shuffle Along鈥�, there was this little girl鈥攕he was five years old with her mother鈥攁nd I met them at the stage door, and her mother told me, 鈥淪he looked up on that stage and she said, 鈥楾hey all look like me.鈥欌� The feeling of wonder that was just all over her face and the pride that came about because of that... Now she knows growing up that she can do something like that. She can shine. There are examples of that. The more we see that all across the board, red, brown, black, yellow, white, I think that鈥檚 just very important. I鈥檓 glad that Jason and Lin-Manuel [Miranda] and a lot of other people are starting to see that. I鈥檓 very excited about that and to be a part of that.
I don鈥檛 think Jason was like, 鈥淚鈥檓 gonna do that black L5Y.鈥� I think he just said, 鈥淐ynthia is off the chain, Joshua is off the chain, let鈥檚 do it.鈥�
JH: That鈥檚 exactly what he said. It wasn鈥檛 let me fill some quota. He was like, 鈥淲ho can do this really really well?鈥� That was the thought process鈥攁nd because he knows his material and there was nothing saying no. So that鈥檚 really, really cool. |
