Gaten Matarazzo and Manoel Felciano Trade Notes on Playing Toby in Sweeney Todd

In Dear Evan Hansen, Jared鈥檚 father is never onstage. But Stranger Things star Gaten Matarazzo, who played Jared in the Broadway musical last summer, came up with a backstory鈥攁nd it became a running joke with his castmate Manoel Felciano. Matarazzo鈥檚 theory? Larry Murphy is really Jared鈥檚 dad. Felciano played Larry (Evan Hansen鈥檚 father figure) at the time, and recalls hearing about this 鈥渄ramaturgical backstory that鈥檚 not entirely unsupported by the script.鈥� He prefaces the rest of the story with a joke. 鈥淣ow I鈥檓 gonna get fired. No one is going to hire me again after this.鈥� Felciano鈥檚 thought process for integrating Matarazzo鈥檚 dramaturgy into his performance was this: 鈥淗e comes into my house. My wife cannot know my illegitimate son is here. So, I would just glare at him, like, 鈥楧on鈥檛 reveal our secret.鈥欌€� Speaking more sincerely, Felciano shared his first impressions of Matarazzo, 鈥淚t was so clear from the beginning that you just wanted to be one of the fellas, and your appetite for mischief and fucking around was as high as ours.鈥�

Matarazzo laughs in response, 鈥淭hat鈥檚 true.鈥�

The duo starred together last summer in Dear Evan Hansen, and were reunited shortly after the show closed for the Off-Broadway run of Jason Robert Brown and Alfred Uhry鈥檚 musical Parade at New York City Center last November. In that run, Matarazzo played Frankie Epps while Felciano starred as Tom Watson, a role he is currently reprising for the show鈥檚 Broadway bow at the Bernard B. Jacobs Theatre. Meanwhile, Matarazzo currently stars in Sweeney Todd as Tobias at the Lunt-Fontanne Theatre鈥攁 role Manoel Felciano played in the last Broadway revival of the Stephen Sondheim and Hugh Wheeler musical, which ran at the Eugene O鈥橬eill Theatre 2005-2006.

With so many experiences shared over the past several months, the two have a connection that hasn鈥檛 faded since going on to star in different Broadway theatres this spring. They play around during the photoshoot, excitedly catching up and tripping over each other in conversation. Felciano razzes on and bolsters Matarazzo equally throughout. Every moment appears to hit home from the sheepishly pleased and grateful looks that cross Matarazzo鈥檚 face.

The pair first bonded when Matarazzo stepped into Dear Evan Hansen in his first return to the Broadway stage since becoming a screen success in Netflix鈥檚 Stranger Things. Matarazzo had previously been a child actor on the Main Stem and Dear Evan Hansen was his first time doing an eight-show week as an adult. 鈥淚t was the most terrifying thing in the world,鈥� he says, staring down at the table as he remembers that fear. But his gaze picks up as he remembers the joy that followed. 鈥淚 was really glad I got to be Jared, because it's a great part, a bit of a saving grace for people at times. Things reach a point where you're like, 鈥業 cannot look away, but I cannot take a single bit more of this.鈥� And then the fun guy who tells the penis jokes comes on stage,鈥� he explains with a laugh.

Manoel Felciano and Gaten Matarazzo Heather Gershonowitz

While still in Dear Evan Hansen, Matarazzo had already booked the role of Tobias in Sweeney Todd. Turning to Felciano, he confesses, 鈥淚鈥檝e been wanting to pick your brain about this for so long, but I wasn't allowed to tell anybody I booked it.鈥� Even though he was only three when Felciano played Tobias on Broadway, Matarazzo has seen Felciano鈥檚 take on the character. 鈥淒efinitely not a bootleg,鈥� he says with a shake of his head and an amusingly unconvincing tone.

The new Broadway revival of Sweeney Todd has a 26-piece orchestra and uses Jonathan Tunick's original orchestrations, which points to its traditional take on the material. By contrast, the 2005 Broadway revival of Sweeney Todd was more barebones and conceptual鈥攊t had 10 musicians and posits that Tobias is telling the story years later from his cell in an insane asylum. 鈥淥ur production was so idiosyncratic. We鈥檙e using the same words, the same notes, but for all intents and purposes, it's a different story,鈥� Felciano explains. With his fingers crooked, Felciano mimes twisting something between his hands. 鈥淵ou know a work of art is great when it can withstand this kind of radical torquing.鈥� Felciano鈥檚 talent as a musician was integral to the John Doyle-directed production, which featured the actors also playing instruments onstage. During 鈥淣ot While I鈥檓 Around,鈥� Felciano played a dissonant counter melody on the violin while Patti LuPone sang Mrs. Lovett鈥檚 part in the duet with Toby. 鈥淚t was me being like, 鈥業 don't really believe you鈥� and saying that musically. It was one of those moments where the actor-musician thing really worked beautifully.鈥�

鈥淣ot While I鈥檓 Around鈥� is also an important moment for Matarazzo. Calling Toby 鈥渁 dream role,鈥� Matarazzo still finds himself nervous every performance throughout the show鈥攅xcept during that number. 鈥淭hat鈥檚 the one scene where I'm like, 鈥楢lright, this is the one.鈥欌€� He attributes his ease in that moment to his scene partner Annaleigh Ashford, the production鈥檚 Mrs. Lovett, whose presence helps him settle into the song and forget the nerves.

When it comes to finding his way in the role, Matarazzo shares that he was 鈥渟o scared of creating a caricature, so scared of falling into what had been done before.鈥� His way of getting past that concern is focusing on Toby鈥檚 history. He asks Felciano, 鈥淗ow much did you know about your past?鈥�

Felciano replies, 鈥淚 always framed it as, 鈥楬as he killed before?鈥� The lyric for me, is 鈥楧emons are prowling everywhere nowadays. I鈥檒l send 鈥榚m howling, I don鈥檛 care. I鈥檝e got ways.鈥� So, he's like, 鈥業 may seem like this little innocent. But, I grew up on the streets.鈥欌€欌€� While researching for the role, Felciano found photobooks and essays about children in asylums and workhouses which served as his touchstone as he developed his performance.

Felciano returns Matarazzo鈥檚 curiosity and asks him, 鈥溾€橦ow long has your Toby been with Pirelli?鈥欌€�

Matarazzo isn鈥檛 quite sure, but he believes that 鈥淧irelli understands his time with Toby is up very soon, because the schtick is this cute kid, right? What happens when he鈥檚 no longer a cute kid?鈥� As someone who was a Broadway child actor, it鈥檚 a familiar feeling. 鈥淭here's kind of that vibe when you're doing a show when you're 10 or 11 years old. [You] understand that your time in the industry and doing what you're good at is coming to an end rapidly. I was very lucky I was able to transition to film and TV right after I had that voice drop,鈥� he shares.

He recalls the instant anxiety of that period working on Broadway. 鈥淭hey wouldn't warn you. Company management would come in and say, 鈥楬eight check!鈥� Your heart would sink into your butthole,鈥� he says. To try and drag out the inevitable, Matarazzo says the child actors would share methods of slouching to look shorter while not looking like they were slouching and speaking in a higher register. 鈥淭here was a sense of urgency. No matter how good of an experience you've had, no matter how delicate people were with you, no matter how understanding and collaborative and communicative they were with you as a kid, the bottom line is that you have a certain amount of what you can deliver. And eventually, you will no longer be able to do that.鈥�

Matarazzo鈥檚 analysis of Toby and Pirelli鈥檚 relationship garners a rather emphatic reaction from Felciano who blurts out, 鈥淥h, fuck.鈥� Felciano listens intently as Matarazzo shares his experiences, clearly taking it in with every noise of surprise and sympathy. Tracing the conversation back to the Toby and Pirelli of it all, Felciano says, 鈥淭his is one of those moments where I鈥檓 thinking 鈥榃hy didn鈥檛 I think of that?鈥� That鈥檚 so good because of your youth being your value, it鈥檚 your youth that is also selling those damn pies.鈥�

Gaten Matarazzo and Manoel Felciano Heather Gershonowitz

With the musical鈥檚 subplots filling out Sweeney Todd鈥檚 bleak portrait of a society, it鈥檚 saved by its dark humor. It鈥檚 one of the differences that Felciano notes between the Sondheim work and Parade. 鈥淲e don鈥檛 have that in Parade. It鈥檚 much closer to the surface, the rawness of the wound feels very palpable. Especially in Michael鈥檚 production because it鈥檚 so documentarian.鈥� Parade dramatizes the true story of Leo Frank鈥檚 life and tragic death. Frank was a Jewish factory manager living in Georgia in the early 20th century, and was falsely convicted of murdering 13-year-old factory worker Mary Phagan and was sentenced to life in prison. Frank was then subsequently lynched by an angry white mob. After Frank's death, it was revealed that Phagan was possibly murdered by Jim Conley, another factory worker. Frank has since been exonerated.

Matarazzo played Frankie Epps, who testifies falsely against Leo Frank and later takes part in his lynching. Felciano stars as Tom Watson, a writer for an extremist right-wing newspaper. Felciano remembers the protests that happened during the show鈥檚 first preview, where Neo-Nazis gathered in front of the Jacobs Theatre. 鈥淚'm playing this character, a rabid, anti-Semitic, rabble-rousing progenitor of today's extreme, right-wing media. And when we had those Nazis protesting, they were right outside my dressing room window. I was like, 鈥榃ow, those people are like my character鈥檚 ideological descendants. And the line between reality and play-making, past and present, really started to blur and it made me really angry and have violent fantasies of going out there. And then I was like, 鈥極h, that's what they want.鈥欌€�

With navigating such heavy themes, the two actors are conscious of the work they and the productions have put into creating safe spaces. For Parade, the cast and creatives had many serious discussions about the transparency and emotional safety that needed to be established. For instance, in certain scenes, the cast needs to improv interactions, because in director Michael Arden鈥檚 version, everyone is onstage almost the entire time, and there鈥檚 always action going on in the periphery. 鈥淲e had some very serious discussions about putting guardrails around the improv in the party scene, because it can be a slippery slope. And then it gets dangerous, and that's an actor safety thing,鈥� Felciano shares. 鈥淐ertainly when I started in the business, improv could be abused in ways for the sake of realism or whatever.鈥�

Some other conscious choices behind the scenes? Arden has always been clear about using the word rope instead of noose, and the production used Pride flags in place of the Confederate flags until tech rehearsals.

It鈥檚 something Matarazzo also remembers from the musical鈥檚 Off-Broadway run. 鈥淭ransparency is key in a show in which you need to maintain healthy communication and trust and love between the people you're doing a show with鈥攚hile simultaneously going into a space in which you are granting each other the permission to say and do the most unspeakable things to each other,鈥� he says. Ben Platt (who was also in Dear Evan Hansen) plays Leo Frank in Parade. And when Matarazzo was in the show, "I needed to talk to him every day. I needed to hug him every day. I wanted to make sure that he was comfortable, that we had a rapport, that we were learning about each other. Because the last thing I wanted to do was have the association of our relationship with each other be like, 鈥極h, that's the guy who commits the hate crime to me on that stage. That's the guy who murders me.鈥欌€�

Despite the heavy themes the two tackle onstage, they haven鈥檛 forgotten how to share a joke or have a laugh. One such story Felciano had to share with Matarazzo during this interview was the time he messed up some lyrics during a preview performance of Sweeney Todd in front of Sondheim. During 鈥淕od, That鈥檚 Good,鈥� usually the lyric is, 鈥淟adies and gentlemen, you can鈥檛 imagine the rapture in store just inside of this door!鈥� But in one unfortunate instance, Felciano accidentally sang, 鈥淟adies and gentlemen, you鈥檙e about to see something that rose from the dead just inside of this door!鈥� The line he accidentally used is sung in 鈥淧irelli鈥檚 Miracle Elixir鈥� earlier in the show. Making matters worse, it鈥檚 the line in the performance which directly preceded Felciano opening the door to reveal Patti LuPone playing the tuba.

Matarazzo is bursting with laughter as Felciano recalls the story. Felciano keeps going. 鈥淎nd from the back of the theatre, you can hear one man howling with laughter. It was Steve. He thought it was the funniest thing in the world that I had just introduced Patti LuPone as having risen from the dead.鈥�

Sadly, Matarazzo won鈥檛 have that opportunity to share a moment with the late Sondheim. 鈥淵ou want to get that blessing, and that's just not how it's gonna work anymore,鈥� Matarazzo says, the disappointment clearly expressed on his face.

The ever-present mentor, Felciano comforts Matarazzo, 鈥淚 think he had an affinity for his Tobys. I know he would have loved you just because of the kind of actor you are. You take it seriously and you have a dirty mind. He loved that because he had a foul sense of humor.鈥� With a slightly bashful look, Matarazzo accepts the compliment. And when he says he鈥檚 trusting director Thomas Kail and music supervisor Alex Lacamoire to affirm that he鈥檚 making good choices, Felciano reminds him to trust himself. 鈥淵our instincts鈥or a young actor, it鈥檚 incredibly mature work.鈥� He points to Matarazzo鈥檚 range as an actor, from his performance as Jared in Dear Evan Hansen to Frankie in Parade. 鈥淚t was so effortless. It just felt like, 鈥楳an, this guy is not acting.鈥� And I mean that in the best way.鈥�

While Matarazzo ducks his head a little throughout the conversation with every boost of support from Felciano, the camaraderie evidently goes both ways. It was a fortuitous day for them to catch up. That night, Matarazzo had a ticket for the center of the front row in the mezzanine to see Parade. A press agent comes in to remind them of the time; they've been talking for 45 minutes. They ask for another five minutes. And then another five. Matarazzo tells her, 鈥淲e鈥檙e having such a blast.鈥�